#764 Marker tags for warm and cold water (ATES systems)

Jaap Balvers Tue 3 Dec 2019

From the ATES systems WG we propose the use of ‘warm’ and ‘cold’ as markers for the warm and cold water that is stored in the groundwater layers.

Existing haystack tags are not suitable for this usage in our opinion, because the ground water in an ATES equip is only slightly warmer or colder than the surrounding natural ground water temperature. For example, a warm source would be around 15 Celsius and a cold source about 8 Celsius when the natural ground water temperature is around 12.

Existing haystack tags are used for other types of water:

  • “chilled” is for water cooled by a mechanical process,
  • “hot” is for high degree temperature water,
  • “heat” is for a heat command point.

Is our proposal compatible with haystack?

Brian Frank Tue 3 Dec 2019

Neither cold nor warm are defined tags, so we could coin them for this.

Although, it would leave us quite a profileration of water subtypes

cold-water  // proposed
warm-water  // proposed 

If we go that route, I think we need a clear write-up of when to use domestic vs chilled/hot vs cold/warm

Christopher Howard Tue 3 Dec 2019

If your going this route, then shouldn't it be:

cold-water / hot-water

cool-water / warm-water

Jaap Balvers Sun 12 Jan

Thank you Brian and Christopher, and I agree with both of you.

As I see it now, this looks like a way forward to me:

  • domestic - tap water used for drinking, washing, cooking, and flushing of toliets
  • chilled/hot - water that is chilled or heated by building systems, e.g. water from the chilled water plant, a chiller etc. and water from the hot water plant, a boiler etc.
  • cool/warm - water that is not (directly) mechanically cooled or heated but still a source of cooler/warmer water, e.g. an aquifer warm water well

The general idea is that chilled/hot is used for substances that have been chilled or heated using active components and used directly in the building (or temporarily stored in a boiler/tank). Cool/warm is a more relative term to signify potential energy with usually less of a temperature difference.

Note that I've adapted Christopher's proposal to use cool instead of cold. The domestic, chilled and hot tags are currently in Haystack but may need a little tweaking of the definition to clarify the above.

Does this make sense?

Christopher Howard Thu 23 Jan

I think the tagging should be,




Merriam-Webster's Thesaurus of Antonyms is your friend.

Brian Frank Thu 23 Jan


While that is logical, unfortunately it does not map to the terms of art. If we take an AHU supplied with water for heating/cooling its always called "hot-water" and "chilled-water".

Christopher Howard Thu 23 Jan

yeah, your right. The Artist in me and the Logical person in me are always at odds with each other.

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