#682 State of Utah Tagging Reference

Cory Mosiman Fri 22 Mar

Hey community,

In the State of Utah Tagging Reference, what do the numbers in the Point Type column mean, always next to Num Point Types?

Thanks in advance.

Paul Quinn Sat 23 Mar

That is the suggested precision for the point.

I have extended this document two times for other clients and have a more comprehensive version if you are interested.

Coen Hoogervorst Mon 25 Mar

Hey Paul,

We are also transferring from an own developped tagging system to haystack tagging and are interested in all available examples. At this moment we are using the State of Utah tagging reference as a starting point, so an extended version of this document could help us a lot. If possible, could you share tis version also with me?

Thank you!

Cory Mosiman Mon 25 Mar

Hey Paul,

If you are willing to provide that, would also be much appreciated. What is the best way for me to share contact information with you?

Paul Quinn Tue 26 Mar

Coen (and anyone else interested), send me your contact information. paul.quinn200@gmail.com

Because this document has evolved since the original State of Utah version, John Petze and I have been discussing a different way to title this document so it is not attributed to any one client and can continue to evolve with the latest and greatest standards. I'm thinking about just giving it a year-month version number and I'll have John post the latest version whenever I've incorporated some changes.

I'm strongly soliciting your feedback for more content for standard terms, abbreviations for equipment and point names and more sample point names by equipment type. I have several clients here in Utah who are seeing good success getting contractors to adhere to these naming conventions and tagging standards. Some are including the document as part of the specification. One reason for better adoption is because the document is laid out so clearly, is becoming fairly comprehensive and it is easy to find the right name or make one up from the standard abbreviations. It makes getting equipment and points into SkySpark much easier! Also, the names in SkySpark are more intuitive for the user.

Cory Mosiman Fri 31 May

Hey Paul -

A few questions on the tagging reference:

  1. In the Pump tab, can you explain the Energy Points - Water section. Not understanding why a change in thermal properties across a pump is expected...am I missing something?
  2. In the CHWS and DHW tabs, can you explain the points associated with the heatExchanger? My understanding is that heatExchangers are generally passive systems, with potentially the exception of having an isolation valve or two. Do you have any cutsheets or references to an active heatExchanger that would have those types of points? Just trying to understand what the use case scenario would be for this.
  3. Could you also explain the hru equips in the Boiler and DHW tabs? Expand on the reasoning for labeling as a meter?
  4. For Energy Points - Electric/Water, should these be a new equip or should the elecMeterLoad tags just be applied?
  5. In the Pump tab, change ChW Pump chilled tag to chiller

Additionally, I noticed the following tags outlined in the reference that don't have tag definitions on the website, or where the tag definitions seemed to not fit exactly. Not sure if we should propose defs for these to be incorporated, but wanted to point out:

  • hru
  • circ: should circ be applied at the pump level and not at the point level?
  • preHeat: discussion 344 and reopened 693
  • hisMode:cov or hisTotalized - are these Project Haystack tags?

Maybe one other comment would just be to combine the EF with the other Fan tabs (which it's already there), or remove it from the Fan tab, so as to not duplicate.

Laurie Reynolds Mon 3 Jun

I'm working on converging our internal standard with Haystack. In answer to Cory's points: 1) There is a measurable temperature rise across a pump, think about energy efficiency, if a pump is 67% efficient then, assuming the pump is at stable temperature equilibrium with surrounding air, the specific heat capacity of the fluid is much larger than the heat loss to the ambient air around the pump. the 33% of energy lost is converted to heat into the fluid. 2) A key justification for a tagging standard is lifetime asset management, including maintenance and condition monitoring. Machine learning algorithms need to have a comprehensive representation of the data model involving dynamic and especially fixed asset data.

Paul Quinn Tue 4 Jun

Thanks for your questions Cory.

1) The energy points on the pump serve two purposes: Energy Points - Electric are to capture the electric power and energy if the VFD provides those points, Energy Points - Water are to capture points related BTU calculations of the fluid. It might be better to think of those points as a BTU meter.

2) Some Chilled Water Systems have the option of economizing and generating chilled water by heat exchanging directly between the cooling tower and the chilled water loop. Those points track various elements related to using a heat exchanger for that purpose.

3)hru stands for Heat Recovery Unit. Those points capture information related to the BTU calculations of the heat recovered from the exhaust flue. Hot Water Plants or Domestic Hot Water systems could have heat recovery in the flue.

4) Depending on your objective, you may want to model electric or BTU points as a separate meter equipment or just leave them on the primary equipment and add a meter tag. Generally, these would be sub meters of a siteMeter (perhaps virtual) and the xxxxMeterLoad would point to the meter above it.

5) The "chilled" tag is correct. ChW stands for chilled water as in the chilled water loop. ChW Pump would be a chilled water main/secondary loop pump. Only the chiller circulation/primary pump (booster pump through the chiller) would have the "chiller" tag.

Misc. Comments hru: As you know, the Haystack Tagging dictionary is not comprehensive. For the State of Utah and other client purposes we have created custom tags to accommodate their needs. hru is an example as the State of Utah (university) does extensive BTU monitoring for cost allocation and energy monitoring.

circ: The Haystack standard allows for pumps or fans to be modeled as separate equipment or points on the primary equipment. The circ tag can be applied at either level.

preheat: Some air handlers have preheat, cooling and heating coils/valves. A preheat tag is needed to uniquely identify each point. Hopefully the working group will add a standard "preheat" tag.

hisMode and hisTotalize: are standardized SkySpark tags (not sure about Haystack). hisMode determines how hisInterpolate calculates missing readings in a grid. hisTotalize handles cumulative readings from a meter (kWh, gallons, etc.) to return the delta between current and previous timestamps.

Exhaust Fans: Exhaust fans can have more features/points like dampers, occupied, etc. Fan is just for an individual fan as in a fan wall.

Cory Mosiman Wed 5 Jun

Hey Paul,

Thanks for response. A few more questions :)

  1. So heatExchanger on a DHW system might look something like piping from utility running through a heatExchanger connected to the HWS before being fed into a supplementary boiler / tank?
  2. Got it, thanks. So for condensing water boilers, these are all really internal to the boiler itself, correct? Have you seen the points exposed via BACnet or similar before, or do you typically just get the Boiler points and see the gains in the overall Boiler efficiency?
  3. Just want to clarify I understand the terminology correctly and for being able to consistently model different systems. Is it possible to have ALL of the following pumps simultaneously in a CHWS (and same goes for HWS)? I am writing with the following convention:
      • CIRC pumps are specific to a an individual piece of equipment, say, chiller or boiler. NOT considered as part of loop?
      • pumps on primaryLoop are considered part of the loop, not specific to any single piece of equip, but rather to the system itself. However, it is on the same loop where the equipment for heat addition / extraction are (chiller, boiler, hx, etc.). LOADs could also be on primary loop, if no secondary loop exists
      • pumps on secondaryLoop are considered part of the loop, not specific to any single piece of equip, but rather to the system itself. Secondary loops are defined by being LOAD dominant, connecting to primaryLoop typically through a heat exchanger.

Potentially this should be a larger discussion, but thanks for all the other info!

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