We would like to propose the following Haystack expansion for heat recovery systems (systems composed of a fluid loop that exchanges heat between exhaust and outside air sections):
New or Adjusted Tags
Equip tags
heatRecovery - Denotes a heat recovery equipment or heat recovery water point
heatRecoveryRef - A ref pointing to the associated heat recovery equip. Generally used with ahu or exhaust fan equips.
Point tags
heatRecovery - Denotes a heat recovery equipment or heat recovery water point
coilHeatRecovery - Denotes air points that are associated with the heat recovery coil in either the ahu or exhaust equipment.
exhaust - Expanded from its current definition to also denote heat recovery water that is going to or leaving the coil in the exhaust air stream.
outside - Expanded from its current definition to also denote heat recovery water that is going to or leaving the coil in the AHU outside air stream.
Example Points
heatRecovery equip points
exhaust entering heatRecovery water temp
exhaust leaving heatRecovery water temp
outside water heatRecovery entering temp
outside water heatRecovery leaving temp
heatRecovery water bypass valve
heatRecovery pump status
ahu equip points
coilHeatRecovery leaving air temp
heatRecovery entering water temp
heatRecovery leaving water temp
exhaust equip points
heatRecovery entering water temp
heatRecovery leaving water temp
coilHeatRecovery leaving air temp
coilHeatRecovery entering air temp
I'm excited to hear peoples' thoughts!!
Paul QuinnMon 23 Apr 2018
I support these recommendations with the one exception that we avoid compound tag names like: coilHeatRecovery.
I think separate tags for heatRecovery and coil is more flexible.
There are also heat recovery wheels and this could be modeled with a "wheel" tag and not require yet another "wheelHeatRecovery" tag.
There are many times I add a coil tag to be able to represent temperatures behind a preheat coil, cooling cool, heating coil, etc. I would like to see "coil" added as a standard tag.
Denis OConnorTue 24 Apr 2018
@Jay ----I like your use of exhaust and outside. I also have a few other comments, but it might be useful if we talked on the phone for a few minutes to make sure I understand your intent. You can contact me at [email protected]
@Paul ---- I like your recommendation for coil as a separate/standard tag.
Jay HerronTue 24 Apr 2018
@Paul, thanks for the feedback! I also like the idea of having coil as a separate tag.
@Denis, I'd be happy to discuss with you. I'll reach out offline.
Jay HerronThu 26 Apr 2018
Following a good discussion with Denis, I'd like to submit an updated proposal. The main changes and clarifications are:
Adjusting coilHeatRecovery to heatRecovery. I like the idea of a separate coil tag, but I think it should be left to another proposal because its implications reach far beyond heat recovery systems.
heatRecovery entering air temp on the ahu is not present in the example points because I interpreted it as equivalent to the outside air temp. If this is not necessarily true, I'm fine with adding this point to the ahu example points.
heatRecovery water temp points are duplicated on the ahu / exhaust and heatRecovery equips to support cases where a heat recovery loop connects multiple exhaust streams or AHUs.
Here's the new proposal:
New or Adjusted Tags
Equip tags
heatRecovery - Denotes a heat recovery equipment or a point associated with the heat recovery coil in an ahu, heatRecovery, or exhaust system.
heatRecoveryRef - A ref pointing to the associated heat recovery equip. Generally used with ahu or exhaustfan equips.
Point tags
heatRecovery - Denotes a heat recovery equipment or a point associated with the heat recovery coil in an ahu, heatRecovery, or exhaust system.
exhaust - Expanded from its current definition to also denote heat recovery water that is going to or leaving the coil in the exhaust air stream.
outside - Expanded from its current definition to also denote heat recovery water that is going to or leaving the coil in the AHU outside air stream.
Example Points
heatRecovery equip points
heatRecovery exhaust water entering temp
heatRecovery exhaust water leaving temp
heatRecovery outside water entering temp
heatRecovery outside water leaving temp
heatRecovery pump cmd
heatRecovery water bypass valve
ahu equip points
heatRecovery air leaving temp
heatRecovery water entering temp
heatRecovery water leaving temp
exhaust equip points
heatRecovery air entering temp
heatRecovery air leaving temp
heatRecovery water entering temp
heatRecovery water leaving temp
Let me know what you think!
Brian FrankFri 27 Apr 2018
This looks good Jay. I think the best way move it forward is to have a standing AHU working group that "owns" this proposal and all other AHU proposals (I'm assuming this is specific to AHUs?). Would you be willing to lead that working group? Or does someone else want to champion it? If so then lets create new forum post titled "AHU Standing WG" and reference this proposal. Then it will probably take a little bit of massaging to get this into the AHU chapter (and we can figure out plan with pending type system rework)
Ashkan JaliliWed 29 Jan 2020
Hi! the idea of this topic seems very useful. I just wanted to check if it is approved because I couldn't see this heatRecovery tag anywhere. Thanks
Ashkan JaliliThu 18 Jun 2020
a heat recovery system has 4 sides. what is the suggestion for tagging them? is this right?
entering primaryLoop
leaving PrimaryLoop
entering secondaryLoop
leaving secondaryLoop
Jay HerronFri 19 Jun 2020
Hey Ashkan,
Nothing has been standardized on this - the only formal support for heat recovery systems that I know of is heatWheel. Informally, I use the proposed tags above to model run-around-loop heat recovery systems, so under that system the four sides you're mentioning would be:
heatRecovery exhaust water entering temp
heatRecovery exhaust water leaving temp
heatRecovery outside water entering temp
heatRecovery outside water leaving temp
Please do realize that there is some disagreement within the community and these tags are likely not what the final solution will be. This comment was a great reminder about this proposal though - I'm planning to add it to our next AHU working group discussion.
Jay Herron Thu 5 Apr 2018
We would like to propose the following Haystack expansion for heat recovery systems (systems composed of a fluid loop that exchanges heat between exhaust and outside air sections):
New or Adjusted Tags
Equip tags
heatRecovery
- Denotes a heat recovery equipment or heat recovery water pointheatRecoveryRef
- A ref pointing to the associated heat recovery equip. Generally used withahu
orexhaust fan
equips.Point tags
heatRecovery
- Denotes a heat recovery equipment or heat recovery water pointcoilHeatRecovery
- Denotes air points that are associated with the heat recovery coil in either theahu
orexhaust
equipment.exhaust
- Expanded from its current definition to also denote heat recovery water that is going to or leaving the coil in the exhaust air stream.outside
- Expanded from its current definition to also denote heat recovery water that is going to or leaving the coil in the AHU outside air stream.Example Points
heatRecovery
equip pointsexhaust entering heatRecovery water temp
exhaust leaving heatRecovery water temp
outside water heatRecovery entering temp
outside water heatRecovery leaving temp
heatRecovery water bypass valve
heatRecovery pump status
ahu
equip pointscoilHeatRecovery leaving air temp
heatRecovery entering water temp
heatRecovery leaving water temp
exhaust
equip pointsheatRecovery entering water temp
heatRecovery leaving water temp
coilHeatRecovery leaving air temp
coilHeatRecovery entering air temp
I'm excited to hear peoples' thoughts!!
Paul Quinn Mon 23 Apr 2018
I support these recommendations with the one exception that we avoid compound tag names like: coilHeatRecovery.
I think separate tags for heatRecovery and coil is more flexible.
There are also heat recovery wheels and this could be modeled with a "wheel" tag and not require yet another "wheelHeatRecovery" tag.
There are many times I add a coil tag to be able to represent temperatures behind a preheat coil, cooling cool, heating coil, etc. I would like to see "coil" added as a standard tag.
Denis OConnor Tue 24 Apr 2018
@Jay ----I like your use of
exhaust
andoutside
. I also have a few other comments, but it might be useful if we talked on the phone for a few minutes to make sure I understand your intent. You can contact me at [email protected]@Paul ---- I like your recommendation for
coil
as a separate/standard tag.Jay Herron Tue 24 Apr 2018
@Paul, thanks for the feedback! I also like the idea of having
coil
as a separate tag.@Denis, I'd be happy to discuss with you. I'll reach out offline.
Jay Herron Thu 26 Apr 2018
Following a good discussion with Denis, I'd like to submit an updated proposal. The main changes and clarifications are:
coilHeatRecovery
toheatRecovery
. I like the idea of a separatecoil
tag, but I think it should be left to another proposal because its implications reach far beyond heat recovery systems.heatRecovery entering air temp
on theahu
is not present in the example points because I interpreted it as equivalent to theoutside air temp
. If this is not necessarily true, I'm fine with adding this point to theahu
example points.heatRecovery water temp
points are duplicated on theahu
/exhaust
andheatRecovery
equips to support cases where a heat recovery loop connects multiple exhaust streams or AHUs.Here's the new proposal:
New or Adjusted Tags
Equip tags
heatRecovery
- Denotes a heat recovery equipment or a point associated with the heat recovery coil in anahu
,heatRecovery
, orexhaust
system.heatRecoveryRef
- A ref pointing to the associated heat recovery equip. Generally used withahu
orexhaust
fan
equips.Point tags
heatRecovery
- Denotes a heat recovery equipment or a point associated with the heat recovery coil in anahu
,heatRecovery
, orexhaust
system.exhaust
- Expanded from its current definition to also denote heat recovery water that is going to or leaving the coil in the exhaust air stream.outside
- Expanded from its current definition to also denote heat recovery water that is going to or leaving the coil in the AHU outside air stream.Example Points
heatRecovery
equip pointsheatRecovery exhaust water entering temp
heatRecovery exhaust water leaving temp
heatRecovery outside water entering temp
heatRecovery outside water leaving temp
heatRecovery pump cmd
heatRecovery water bypass valve
ahu
equip pointsheatRecovery air leaving temp
heatRecovery water entering temp
heatRecovery water leaving temp
exhaust
equip pointsheatRecovery air entering temp
heatRecovery air leaving temp
heatRecovery water entering temp
heatRecovery water leaving temp
Let me know what you think!
Brian Frank Fri 27 Apr 2018
This looks good Jay. I think the best way move it forward is to have a standing AHU working group that "owns" this proposal and all other AHU proposals (I'm assuming this is specific to AHUs?). Would you be willing to lead that working group? Or does someone else want to champion it? If so then lets create new forum post titled "AHU Standing WG" and reference this proposal. Then it will probably take a little bit of massaging to get this into the AHU chapter (and we can figure out plan with pending type system rework)
Ashkan Jalili Wed 29 Jan 2020
Hi! the idea of this topic seems very useful. I just wanted to check if it is approved because I couldn't see this heatRecovery tag anywhere. Thanks
Ashkan Jalili Thu 18 Jun 2020
a heat recovery system has 4 sides. what is the suggestion for tagging them? is this right?
entering primaryLoop
leaving PrimaryLoop
entering secondaryLoop
leaving secondaryLoop
Jay Herron Fri 19 Jun 2020
Hey Ashkan,
Nothing has been standardized on this - the only formal support for heat recovery systems that I know of is heatWheel. Informally, I use the proposed tags above to model run-around-loop heat recovery systems, so under that system the four sides you're mentioning would be:
Please do realize that there is some disagreement within the community and these tags are likely not what the final solution will be. This comment was a great reminder about this proposal though - I'm planning to add it to our next AHU working group discussion.
Thanks!